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 Vitamin k and prem babies.

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Amethyst Posted - 05/24/2007 : 07:12:02
Has anyone ever heard of a link between this vitamin being administered and autism?I was determined that my third child would not have any jabs, but I presume this was given to my 10 week prem baby, I was not told that it was though, and he has now been diagnosed as having autism( my eldest has Aspergers,probably from his MMR in '92, and my middle child has severe disabilities,probably from the DTP, as both were developing normally until these jabs)

I am thinking of getting copies of his medical files, to see what else he was given whilst in special baby care unit, and wondered if this vit k shot could be the cause?
15   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
Emerald Posted - 07/17/2007 : 22:06:53
This is a dreadful situation, if vitamin K is being injected without consent. I refused it all the way through and was supplied with it in oral form so didn't have any problems.
Shann Posted - 07/16/2007 : 18:39:54
Fee, your experience sounds very similar to mine. I'd just had a ceasarian and was numb from the waist down and was lying in bed with all these folk leaning over me trying to persuade me to change my mind. I'd refused the vit K weeks before the birth but the first nurse to visit me told me what harm I could be doing if I refused this. "Everyone gets it, what's the matter with you?", was the tone I was getting. "My kids have had it and there's nothing wrong with them." She was exasperated and insistant. I'd mentally prepared myself for this so stuck to my decision. She left and a doctor appeared and tried the same blackmailing tactics. My daughter was taken to special care and to my knowledge, and on my orders, wasn't given the vitamin K injection. I often wonder though if someone went over my head and saw me as not in a fit state at that minute to make that decision and gave her the injection anyway. I hope not. After reading your story and others here I'll make a point of asking my GP about this next time I take my daughter for a visit. My daughter is six now and (to my knowledge) has never had an injection of any kind.
laura_c_a Posted - 07/11/2007 : 21:49:06
Perhaps you found a sympathizer - you never know.
fee Posted - 07/11/2007 : 20:57:24
as far as i know, no, i dont think so because I was only in overnight and was awake for most of the time ( call me paranoid ) but that did cross my mind. I was in a private room and because of under staffing they forgot i was there most of the time.I didint really sleep either because of breast feeding every two minutes.

laura_c_a Posted - 07/11/2007 : 19:27:28
fee - I don't want to alarm you but are you sure there is no possibility of the vitamin k having been administered without your knowledge? I've written my experience with my first born already on the "Should Vitamin K shot be avoided also?" thread. In short, the vitamin k injection was administered to my newborn despite my pregnancy notes clearly stating months before that my husband and I wished for the vitamin K to be administered in the form of oral drops. I was half asleep when the midwife walked up to my baby daughter and injected her in the thigh with vitamin K. My husband had left the room for only a moment. My husband walked in as the midwife was withdrawing the needle from my daughter's thigh. On questioning, the midwife pleaded ignorance and 'misunderstanding'.
fee Posted - 07/10/2007 : 23:55:34
I would like to comment on the vitamin k injection
my son born just before christmas did not have the injection at my request.
I wrote in the birth plan before hand that i didnt want him to have it
during labour I reinforced my wish for him not to have it.
after giving birth ( literally) I was still being asked if I wanted him to have it to which the answer was still no.after a while i was about to get a wash, still woozy from birth and extremly tired (28 hour labour!)A woman doctor came in asking why I didnt want the vitamin k injection and that I was taking a great risk as they had had a case of a baby bleeding to death. I felt under immense pressure and still refused . after having a wash and settled down to latch on my baby the same doctor came in asking why again and didi i have any medical knowledge, what did i do for a living and about the great risk that i was putting my baby iat this point i was getting quite annoyed and told her no and to leave us alone.Later on the ward I was woken up after minimal sleep by the same doctor to harrass me yet again with leaflets, guilt tactics .I then said to get me something to sign to confirm my wishes and to leave me alone by this time i was quite aggitated , the nurse then came to do a check on myself and i told her what had happened and that if she harrassed me again there would be trouble! I didnt see the doctor again.
on discharge i had a different lady doctor who was fine about my decision apologised for the other doctors behaviour and said that i didnt need to sign anything. I had a nosey at her notes and noticed that the box for having the vitamin k injection was ticked ???????????????? very strange so even though he didnt have it he is on record as he has ??

allison Posted - 06/25/2007 : 13:59:32
Hannah great news...always be confident about what you know and have experienced don't let this whole debacle lower your voice - you have a right to an opinion same as the next man - a good debate over this would do no-one any harm.

I have never had a fervent stance on vaccines, I took both of my son's for all their shots, but you learn from experience. I argued with my husband who said no to the MMR because I was persuaded by the Home Visitor that it was perfectly safe. Hubby never lets me forget it in a row or anxious moment when dealing with my son.

The MMR was the catalyst, having watched my youngest change every day thereafter in front of my eyes and lived with the dreadful consequences of severe autism I then began battling for education just getting him in to a school he was recommended for, but no places were available . Speech and language therapy (I've had 3 hours for him this year one-to-one so far, it's nearly July and he can't speak!). Nappies we can only get four a day from NHS (one every six hours) he uses eight. It took seven years to get respite, we were exhausted! God knows what it'll be like when he's taller and stronger than me, I'll be older and weaker yet still have to lead him around by the hands to do every task, still change his nappies when he's a grown man. He's such a handsome boy.....a real tragic loss to the females of this nation - he'll always just be my baby his mind the same as the day the needle penetrated his skin and took a happy smiley, vocal, responsive child away into a quiet world of flapping hands, rocking and obsession.

This is enough to merit a good debate beforehand - no Home Visitors after this.....you're on your own! Go for it Hannah!
Hannah Posted - 06/25/2007 : 11:52:58
Thanks Allison. I don't want to feel that people can't talk to me because I go on about vaccines (which I don't), but I actually feel that lots of mums don't want to find out about the "other side" of vaccines because it makes the decision too difficult. When I do get the chance, I'm always very positive about the fact that my youngest is unvaccinated and 100% confident that the DTP vaccine did cause problems for my eldest two and no one ever argues with that!!

Mind you, my sister had the flu jab last autumn to help combat her asthma/chest infections over the winter and was too scared to tell me until recently. She then wasn't ill at all over the winter, apart from the odd cold, so compared to usual winters she now thinks the flu jab is brilliant. Not that she has done any research into it at all.......

Thanks again though Allison, this has made me resolve to go along. I was going to email the organiser and tell her my stance on vaccines in case she wanted to keep me away, but I won't give her that chance now. Having said that, she actually might have the same views as me anyway ..... we'll find out!!

Hannah
allison Posted - 06/25/2007 : 09:34:04
I wish someone had given me guidance through those early decisions and EVEN just let me know I had a choice.....being made to feel like a bad mother is more than just a hint if you don't deliver the child on time for all vaccines.

I think it's a brilliant opportunity for you to counsel parents Hannah, one side seems to dominate the whole issue....the DoH point of view....never that of the parents of a damaged child on the pro's and con's re these grave, life-changing decisions. How there's no going back should you win the lottery and get the child who reacts, so little in the way of services and support is available, how powerless you feel, too many fighting for too few resources. All new parents should be made aware of what life as a carer holds if it goes wrong.

Good luck to you.
Hannah Posted - 06/24/2007 : 15:16:10
Thanks for clarifying Allison! I can imagine how easy it is to get swept along with general decisions on a maternity ward. All my boys were born at home so I felt much more in control of numerous decisions.

Who knows, Vit K could be the culprit for other things but it is made so difficult for the general public to find out. I've learnt now that if anything is offered routinely to everyone, then I refuse it!

As a side issue, I've been asked at church to come along to help support a bumps and babies group. It is specifically for mums who don't have much help or support locally, rather than being a social get-together. At first I was a bit unsure of this, but now see it as a chance to mention vaccines very gently!

Hannah
allison Posted - 06/24/2007 : 14:05:38
Hannah.....huge apology to my written piece above....I removed a chunk rushing and didn't read it back before posting.

Happily the nurse WAS qualified and a darned nice one at that. During a particularly busy time the ward was full. She was doing heel pricks..... AND a vit. K on a new arrival as well as a first bottle feed (without going into the circumstances why - too long).We were chatting whilst I breastfed on the 'routineness'of tests, checks and shots given (at the time) that more or less 'had to be done' whether Mum was awake or not.

In the chaos of a busy maternity ward procedures are followed wherever possible, but not always with informed consent.

This careful monitoring of a new baby begins with a vaccine (or drops) then Mum is duty bound by advice, clutching a red book, encouraged to keep up with the rest of the vaccine program after leaving hospital as a 'responsible parent' - choice isn't an issue.

So could this shot be a forgotten culprit? The complex array given thereafter just overloads a tiny system.

I personally, think small babies should be left free of shots completely for at least the first year if not two.... but this scenario is unlikely to happen BECAUSE OF the ludicrous "vaccines are the ONLY way policy".
Hannah Posted - 06/23/2007 : 22:26:13
quote:
Originally posted by allison

Amethyst hi.....when I was in hospital having my second son I sat up once with the night nurse chatting whilst I was breast feeding she was doing the heel prick's on new borns whilst their mothers exhausted from giving birth slept. It was routine adiministration of Vitamin K to prevent clotting illnesses she told me, all babies got it.

Parental permission was not sought. Young mums were told about it in the morning to explain the little plaster on their baby's heel.



I hope this nurse was qualified Allison, as the heel prick test is nothing to do with the Vit K injection!! The heel prick test is testing for a condition called PKU and just takes a small amount of blood from the baby (without anything being injected). The Vit K injection is given pretty soon after birth and is intramuscular, usually done into the thigh, unless it's being given orally (3 doses). I'm not aware of signed consent for this, but I was certainly asked about it verbally before my babies were born. My eldest had the jab, my second had the drops and my youngest didn't have any K. I do believe that consent has to be given before the Vit K is administered.

To answer your query Amethyst, I haven't of heard any link between Vit K and autism; my concern with this jab was the link with leukaemia.

Hannah
allison Posted - 06/23/2007 : 12:06:29
Amethyst hi.....when I was in hospital having my second son I sat up once with the night nurse chatting whilst I was breast feeding she was doing the heel prick's on new borns whilst their mothers exhausted from giving birth slept. It was routine adiministration of Vitamin K to prevent clotting illnesses she told me, all babies got it.

Parental permission was not sought. Young mums were told about it in the morning to explain the little plaster on their baby's heel.
Aasa Posted - 06/23/2007 : 04:01:31
This is strange,...the Vitamin K discussion is also occurring (concurrently) on the Evidence of Harm list group, where I spend a good amount (probably too much time, according to my husband and kids). Unfortunately, I have not paid much attention to that particular thread of discussion since all of my kids are long past that point (and my brain is having enough difficulty keeping me on track as it is). I know that some of you are "straddling the pond" already, as I have seen some of the JABS members posting at EOH.

I would like to extend an invitation to all or any of you who would like to join the Evidence of Harm list group. This is not meant to decimate this particular group, as I am hoping that by opening more lines of communication, we can make both groups stronger and more vital. I see that you are sharing what is happening in the States at Jabs, and, in the States as well as in Canada, we are sharing what is happening in the UK. All that's left, is for all parties on both sides of "the pond" to find a way to share our information and experiences more easily, as we do have a lot in common.

Here I am, inviting you to join the Evidence of Harm listgroup, and I can't even provide you with a roadmap. To tell you the truth, I cannot even exactly remember how I found my way there myself. A short Google search with the right key words,...will likely get you there, if anyone is interested.

It would be "neat" if we could somehow join "forces".

Aasa
Amethyst Posted - 06/22/2007 : 09:12:26
OK Ive found this----

Toxic ingredients accompanying the Vitamin K

The vitamin K injections administered by hospitals and manufactured by Merck and Roche and Abbott contain benzyl alcohol as a preservative. The 1989 PDR states that, "there is no evidence to suggest that the small amount of benzyl alcohol contained in AquaMEPHYTON (Merck's vitamin K injection product), when used as recommended, is associated with toxicity." Interestingly, in November 1988, the French medical journal, Dev Pharmacol Ther, published a paper regarding benzyl alcohol metabolism and elimination in babies. The report stated that "...we cannot directly answer the issue of safety of 'low doses' of benzyl alcohol as found in some medications administered to neonates. This study confirms the immaturity of the benzoic acid detoxification process in premature newborns."

Roche's vitamin K product KONAKION contains ingredients such as phenol (carbolic acid-a poisonous substance distilled from coal tar), propylene glycol (derived from petroleum and used as an antifreeze and in hydraulic brake fluid) and acetic acid (an astringent antimicrobial agent that may drastically reduce the amount of natural vitamin K that would have otherwise been produced in the digestive tract). As reported in the PDR and as published in the IM vitamin K packet inserts for Merck, Roche and Abbott, "Studies of carcinogenicity, mutagenesis or impairment of fertility have not been conducted with Vitamin K1 Injection (Phytonadione Injection, USP)."

The Vitamin K injection can be in a base of polyethoxylated castor oil.

Vitamin K injections also contain hydrochloric acid and lecithin.



Effects of Vitamin K administration

The manufacturers warn on the product insert: "Severe reactions, including fatalities, have occurred during and immediately after intravenous injection of phytonadione even when precautions have been taken to dilute the vitamin and avoid rapid infusion..."

The Vitamin K shot has been linked to leukaemia, including acute lymphoblastic leukaemia, which is characterized by an increased number of white corpuscles in the blood, and accounts for about 85 percent of childhood leukaemia. Research carried out by Dr. Louise Parker, of the Sir James Spence Institute of Child Health in Newcastle upon Tyne, produced the most startling results. Dr. Louise Parker was quoted in the British Medical Journal in 1998 as stating, "It is not possible, on the basis of currently published evidence, to refute the suggestion that neonatal IM vitamin K administration increases the risk of early childhood leukemia.".

The British Journal of Cancer published "Factors associated with childhood cancer" by J. Golding, et al, in 1990. The report indicated that universally administered IM vitamin K injections significantly increase our children's chances of developing childhood cancer. A follow-up study published two years later in the British Medical Journal (Golding J, Paterson K, Greenwood R, Mott M. Intramuscular vitamin K and childhood cancer. BMJ 1992; 305:341-346.) reinforced the findings of the previous study. The authors' comments, in keeping with scientific style, are conservatively stated, but parents who are concerned about the health of their babies will read "danger" between the following lines: "The only two studies so far to have examined the relation between childhood cancer and intramuscular vitamin K have shown similar results and the relation is biologically plausible. The prophylactic benefits against haemorrhagic disease are unlikely to exceed the potential adverse effects from intramuscular vitamin K..."

The chance of your child developing leukaemia from the Vitamin K shot is estimated to be about one in 500 (MIDIRS Midwifery Digest, Vol 2 #3, September 1992)

Animal studies have linked large doses of vitamin K to a variety of conditions that include anaemia, liver damage, kidney damage and death.

Interestingly the common problem that occurs these days of jaundice in newborns has only been reported since the introduction of Vitamin K administration.

According to the product insert, adverse reactions include haemolysis (or hemolysis - American spelling) (meaning breakdown of red blood cells), haemolytic anaemia (a disorder characterised by chronic premature destruction of red blood cells), hyperbilirubinemia (too much bilirubin in blood) and jaundice (yellow skin and eyes resulting from hyperbilirubinemia), and allergic reactions include face flushing, gastrointestinal upset, rash, redness, pain or swelling at injection site and itching skin. It also warns that large enough doses can cause brain damage in infants and/or impairment to liver function. Hypoxia has also been published as having occurred in infants after Vitamin K administration.-----

Could our sons severe learning disability and diagnosis of autism have been due to this vitamin?? I can link our other 2 childrens autism and disabilities to their jabs( MMR and DTP respectively), but this is the only one my youngest has had?? he was terribly jaundiced, and was close to having a blood transfusion a few days after his birth, this is all very worrying, could it have caused brain damage?

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