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 MMR vaccine, faith and unreasonableness
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Cybertiger

United Kingdom
976 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2008 :  15:14:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
"On the matter of MMR vaccine, faith surpasses reason" * is a quote from Dr Anthony Cox's latest black triangular blogpost.

http://www.blacktriangle.org/blog/?p=1861

Dr Cox PhD is one of the faithfully unwashed in the new age of unreason ... and MMR is his faith. LOL

* This risible Cox saying constitutes the resurrection of CoxWatch ... where the herd watches over the great shepherd with his syringe full of faith, MMR and hopeless unreason.

MinorityView

USA
611 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2008 :  17:19:32  Show Profile  Visit MinorityView's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I cannot understand why anyone would think that people whose children were damaged by MMR would have faith in the safety of MMR.

Talk about unreasonable!

Aged survivor of many years of alternative health care...and one vaccine, administered by a doctor without the consent of my parents, 50 years ago.
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Cybertiger

United Kingdom
976 Posts

Posted - 12/11/2008 :  16:48:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Quick, quick, read it while you can! Doc Cox will soon turn nasty and censorious and all commentary will be peremptorily switched off.

http://www.blacktriangle.org/blog/?p=1861#comments

Of course, Dr Cox PhD is never deliberately dense about anything Ė it all comes naturally to the man whose faith in matters of MMR surpasses any sort of reason. LOL.
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Cybertiger

United Kingdom
976 Posts

Posted - 12/11/2008 :  20:08:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
"Hark, is that the sound of straws being grasped by a drowning man that I hear?"

http://www.blacktriangle.org/blog/?p=1861#comments

Becky Fizzo, the pantomime dame, can now hear the sounds of Anthony Royston Cox PhD, sucking mud up a straw from the bottom of his black-triangular pond. Such are the contemporary plopping sounds of pond life and the vile suck, suck noises of foul panto queens.
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Cybertiger

United Kingdom
976 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2008 :  12:54:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Doc Cox is now stretching beyond satirisation in his faithful desperation to promote the utter safety of MMR ...

http://www.blacktriangle.org/blog/?p=1863

You have to larf out loud: Anthony Royston Cox PhD has now elicited the services of Ian Hislop (prince of satire) to lend scientific credibility to the faith that MMR is safe. LOL again ...
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John Stone

United Kingdom
1254 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2008 :  23:21:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Actually, Hislop says quite a lot of interesting things - not a straightforward climbdown at all:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00ft44z/Simon_Mayo_12_12_2008/

You have to fast-forward an hour and 10 minutes.
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Cybertiger

United Kingdom
976 Posts

Posted - 12/14/2008 :  11:21:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by John Stone

Actually, Hislop says quite a lot of interesting things - not a straightforward climbdown at all:


I think it could be said that the 'Prince of Satire' has damned the safety of MMR in a deluge of faint praise. LOL
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laura_c_a

358 Posts

Posted - 12/15/2008 :  11:03:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That's the problem with 'soundbites' and short interviews. They can be twisted and miscontrued to give a completely different meaning.

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laura_c_a

358 Posts

Posted - 12/15/2008 :  11:13:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I am a great fan of Ian Hislop by the way.
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Cybertiger

United Kingdom
976 Posts

Posted - 12/17/2008 :  07:39:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
How long before the highly accurate Mr Schwartz gets busted by BlackTriangle?

http://www.blacktriangle.org/blog/?p=1861#comment-34717

Mr Schwartz says,

"Reading this I make the following observations:

1) The first study was never retracted, the conclusions werenít retracted. Even worse, the partial retraction of a minor interpretation in the study text was only retracted due to public reactions, not any scientific reason. The author of this article clearly didnít read the details, didnít comprehend the details, or is purposefully misleading everyone.

2) The only speculation about any OíLeary retraction is an interview quote (seemingly an offhand opinion) from Dr. Bustin, who is not connected to that study. Not exactly newsworthy.

3) The rest of this article is pure speculation and a personal swipe at Mr. Stone.

4) The comments degenerate into personal insult against Mr. Stone who responds by correcting insult or inaccuracies with quotes from actual articles or studies.

Conclusion: This site isnít exactly a bastion of science or accuracy."

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John Stone

United Kingdom
1254 Posts

Posted - 12/17/2008 :  12:16:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So, Cox has wound the correspondence up, having had the final say - well he is entitled, although the implication that some time limit has expired rather that it being a matter of personal whim doesn't bear much scrutiny. It is, of course, very hard to take seriously. If this is the kind of response you get, any time some piece of scientific dogma is challenged we are only going to have science arranged on an infantile basis.

I recall the attack on Wakefield in February 2004 by Nobel priz-winner, Lewis Wolpert. Wolpert implied in a London Evening Standard article but did not state - in peculiar staccato language - that Wakefield had attacked the very core of scientific beliefs. This claim - if it was indeed made - was a perfectly absurd. MMR was a just another pharmaceutical product which needed testing and monitoring like an other. The political and medical authorities demonstrated their lack of objectivity by subjecting anyone who disagreed to harassment and abuse, while the children themselves were condemned to medical neglect. Every time they stuff their ears they just prove the point.

Of course, we also had the MMR dogma enunciated by Richard Dawkins - bordering on pure intellectual idiocy - MMR as a core tenet of rational belief. What is the matter with these people? If Dawkin's wants people to believe what scientists say then he shouldn't indulge in latter day totemism.


Edited by - John Stone on 12/17/2008 12:29:05
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Cybertiger

United Kingdom
976 Posts

Posted - 12/17/2008 :  12:35:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by John Stone

So, Cox has wound the correspondence up, having had the final say - well he is entitled, although the implication that some time limit has expired rather that it being a matter of personal whim doesn't bear much scrutiny.

When things start to get interesting, Dr Royston PhD winds them up. Funny that!

PS. I still wonder who paid for that September pharmaco-vigilant junket in Buenos Aires.

PPS. John, do you have a link to the Dawkins idiocy on MMR?

PPPS. I neither believe in God nor MMR.
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MinorityView

USA
611 Posts

Posted - 12/17/2008 :  12:51:43  Show Profile  Visit MinorityView's Homepage  Reply with Quote
new piece on insidevaccine critiques the vaccine defenders:

http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/2008/12/15/vaccines-safe-parents-dangerous/

Aged survivor of many years of alternative health care...and one vaccine, administered by a doctor without the consent of my parents, 50 years ago.
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John Stone

United Kingdom
1254 Posts

Posted - 12/17/2008 :  13:29:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Cybertiger

It came in Dawkins' two part television documentary 'The Enemies of Reason' - 8 minutes into part 2 (with Michael Fitzpatrick):

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4720837385783230047

A very genteel rant - elision of many unlike cases along the theme of the world falling apart, and the threat to the class he represents.

Minorityview

Nice article.

Edited by - John Stone on 12/17/2008 14:26:11
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Cybertiger

United Kingdom
976 Posts

Posted - 12/17/2008 :  15:54:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MinorityView

new piece on insidevaccine critiques the vaccine defenders:

http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/2008/12/15/vaccines-safe-parents-dangerous/


Very good stuff from 'insidevaccines! Dr Anthony Royston Cox PhD, defender of the British faith in vaccine safety, would be well advised to read and inwardly digest these very wise words on defending that faith ... especially,

"The official pro-vaccine position is that vaccines are safe. If this is true, a good system for tracking vaccine damage would confirm that safety. If vaccine defenders really believe that vaccines are completely safe and effective they should be fighting passionately for a system that tries to collect every vaccine reaction, no matter how minor. The current system obviously allows many thousands of reactions to pass unrecorded, perhaps, as the anti-vaccine critics claim, many millions. The only way to sort this out is to replace an ineffective system with an effective one. To replace bad statistics with good statistics. If pro-vaccine folks really, honestly, wholeheartedly believe in the safety of vaccines they should be fighting, hard, for an effective system of monitoring vaccine damage. We all need to end the confusion."

Go figure, Royston!
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MinorityView

USA
611 Posts

Posted - 12/17/2008 :  17:15:59  Show Profile  Visit MinorityView's Homepage  Reply with Quote
the insidevaccines team thanks you for the kind words!

I like your choice of quote...it highlights their hypocrisy and double-dealing very nicely.

Aged survivor of many years of alternative health care...and one vaccine, administered by a doctor without the consent of my parents, 50 years ago.
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